Endorsing Jonathan for 2015 should be based on performance –Bishop Chukwuma

Anglican Bishop of Enugu Diocese, Rt. Rev. Emmanuel Chukwuma, is known for his bluntness on issues of national and societal importance. In this interview with Dennis Agbo, the fi ery cleric opens up on issues surrounding the proposed national conference, the Igbo Presidency, President Jonathan’s second term and the way forward for Nigeria. Did President Goodluck Jonathan’s move to organise a national conference come to you as a welcome development? Well, it’s a welcome development for Mr. President to agree to set up a committee to look into the organisation of the national conference being agitated by many. You know Nigerians would want something and rather than him to keep quiet and for it to look like he is deaf to people’s request, he has now succumbed to it and see how it goes, just like he succumbed to amnesty for Boko Haram which today has failed. I am not confident that this national conference or dialogue will be a success because a lot of things will definitely bring a clog on the wheel by selfish Nigerians on the way they will handle it. They will be political and tribalistic about it. It is a welcome development but how far will it go, that is the question. Who are the people going to have this dialogue or conference? What is their motive, sincerely or insincerely? Now that the committee is searching for modality for the conference, how do you think it should be organised? Personally, I am not too confident about the committee. You can see Professor Ben Nwabueze backing out, saying he is battling with cancer. If you are compiling such a committee, it should be people of high intelligence, not people who have expired or people who are sentimentally against government because you want to silence them. They are supposed to be people of serious intellectual ability who have wider experience of what it takes to dialogue in Nigeria. Elders should not be involved in this committee, they should be consultants. I want to let you know that when this committee was formed, it was with mixed feelings but now the modalities for which the committee is going to come up, they are going to consult. Now the problem is who and who are going to be representatives. They are now going to fight for it thinking that this is another way of going to share the national cake. They will not be concerned about the real motive of the President. People will be very much interested in grabbing and not to serve. They will be much interested again in so much argument other than facing the true fact of the situation. Again, I must say that there are things needed to be identified as far as this conference is concerned. One is that the leadership of this nation is a problem; two, the unity of this nation, and three is the religious bigotry in this nation for which you must really have to know whether Christians and Muslims will have to co exist without intolerance which had led to so many confusion and violence in this country. There is need for religious dialogue to be involved in this political discussion and not tribalistic dialogue. The third item is the economy because the economy of this country is in problem. We need to know the real income of this country as regard the crude oil. There is a lot of disagreement and dissatisfaction about it and so there is need for us to also know who and who are responsible for the continuous violence in this country. There is need for us to consider about the education of this country. It is already being bastardized and there is need for dialogue on how education can move forward. Having more universities without jobs for them is not a solution. If they graduate, where do you employ them? These are the problems we need to look into. Also we should look into infrastructure; there is need for dialogue on equity and justice in distribution of resources of the nation because you find that there is no balance. We have to look at our zonal distribution as some zones are having fewer states. Should a zone like South- East have only five states and other zones are having six or seven? We should have a balance of number of states in a zone and then equity in distribution of resources of the nation. These are the things we need to look into. This question of dragging of leadership because some people feel it is their turn to lead and as I always say, the northerners should know that they have had a fair share of leadership of this nation. The areas that have not had fair share should be given opportunity because leadership of this country does not belong to the North. The number of years that the people from the North have ruled is more than any other zone in this country and that’s why they should not be persistent on it. The South-East and South-South are very much cheated, same as the Middle Belt. So there are so many things they have to look into in the modus operandi and if they do their statistics well, we will have no problem. But again, the implementation of whatever comes out of that conference is another thing because you find out that so many beautiful conferences had been held in this country but the implementation had been swept under the carpet. Therefore, why not go back to these conferences we’ve had before, like Vision 20:20 and the rest; where are the results, even the amendment of the constitution? For me, I am not too confident something good could come out of this. It’s going to be a noise making as usual and everybody will come back again to square one. Specifically, who or what groups should be delegates to the conference? It has to be encompassing. As far as I am concerned, it has to be by zonal representation. Each geopolitical zone of the country should have their representation. In each of these zonal representations, there should be traditional and religious representations because these are very important so you can have balance in representations. Do you agree with Ohanaeze Ndigbo’s submission that the federation should be based on the geopolitical zones? These are also areas you have to look into in the dialogue. Do you want federalism or what because right now power is so much concentrated at the centre, in Abuja the federal capital and the states and local governments are suffering. There should be devolution of power. Parliamentary, federalism or whatever should be looked into. What do we really want in this country? Which of these ones should be better for Nigeria? That brings us to the issue of fiscal federalism, should the centre continue to have so much money? No! What is more important is at the grassroots because that is where you have more effects of democracy dividends, because if the grassroots don’t feel the impact of government then nothing is happening. If it is just at the federal, the people of this country and even the people from up there come from a certain area which is the grassroots and so resources should be allowed to flow down so that there can be genuine development of the society. Don’t you think that devolution of power may lead to disintegration, which of course is what people are afraid of in this dialogue? No, there won’t be disintegration. Power can remain but resources can go down. The control of power can remain up there but the resources can go down. Making rules can be up there but resources should go down but not to hold on to power and to money. What agenda do you think the Igbo should present at the conference? The Igbo should first of all unite themselves better. I must tell you that I am not happy that there is a lot of disintegration among the Igbo. You have the Aka Ikenga and you have the Ohanaeze. Ohanaeze will always go to the conference. There is the South-East Forum, so which one? We are confused. There should be agreed forum for Ndigbo to speak with one voice. Right now, everybody wants to be a leader. Until we humble ourselves, respect ourselves and understand that somebody has to lead and others to follow; that is the problem. Shouldn’t the Igbo agitate for Presidency in the conference? We agitate for presidency when we are united. You have to get yourselves together so that when the time comes you will be able to nominate one person; not when Igbo presidency comes, 20 people will come out. You see how the northerners do their own; they step down for themselves; Yoruba, the same thing, but in the case of the Igbo, hundred people will come out. Until you come to a point where we agree that one person must represent us, we will not have a headway but if not as I said we have to put our house in order and that is the most important thing the Igbo will do now. Right now, we are not together, not organised and that is my worry. Ohanaeze said the Igbo would rather wait until the South-South exhausts their chances for presidency; is that not a way of endorsing Jonathan for a second term? Whether it’s another way of endorsing Jonathan for 2015 or not, as far as I am concerned, Jonathan has the right to contest if he performs. The endorsement of Jonathan for 2015 depends on his performance. I don’t think somebody who has failed should have a repeat of governance. If between now and 2015, there is a change in style of governance and there is reason for Jonathan to continue in office, why not? He needs to complete a second term so that Ndigbo can now talk about Presidency but if things don’t work out well and there is no improvement in security situation which we can say continue, then the Igbo should then talk about who can do better. If not, the devil you know is better than the angel you don’t know. What we are talking about now is not somebody to represent your geopolitical zone but somebody going there to make better governance and free Nigeria from this shackle of suffering. People should be talking about how to leave a legacy in the heart of men and not property stolen to abroad or shifted to the village. Remember that each of us will give account of what we have done and the judgement of God will be upon everyone. Is Christian Association of Nigeria (CAN) going to have a position at the conference? Why not? The position of CAN is how we can have a peaceful society with religious dialogue that will bring about understanding and not religious bigotry. CAN is always on the peaceful side but we have to tolerate one another and know that Christians and Muslims have to co-exist and become the conscience of the nation, to note better citizens in the realm of the spirit. When people are developed spiritually and morally then you can talk about good governance and corruption will not be in the hearts of men. Stealing will not be there. Everybody has to brace up for spiritual transformation because that is what Nigeria needs now before you can talk about good governance. Some people hitherto agitating for national conference have suddenly turned around to say no; how do you see that? It depends on what they want. If what they want is selfishness and they see they are not going to gain out of it, then they will be against it. Everything depends on what interest you have. If your interest is not being met and you know you are not going to be part of that, then it becomes a disaster when you want to back out but if you know it is for the good of all, then there is no need talking about them. The thing is how many are ready for it because the percentage has to be respected. This country does not belong to a single individual but to all of us and democratically, we must all decide with the majority vote. What is your prayer for the country at this stage of our crossroads? We need more than prayer but God’s intervention. Whatever we are passing through now may be God’s way of letting us know that he is the supreme. Nigerian’s must revert to God and ask for a sense of direction. It is only through that that the country can be better. Right now, there is no fear of God and that’s why we do things with impunity. People no more fear and respect human beings; this is the problem but we should know that God is God and that he has power over our lives and so we should trust on that God. For us, we will continue to pray to God to transform Nigeria. Nobody should think he can destroy Nigeria or any government because the destiny of this nation is in the hands of God, and God will help us. Culled from National Mirror Newspaper